Munk Debate: The Future is Populist?

The Munk Debates are semi-annual debates on big issues of our time that are held in Toronto, Canada.  I have only watched the two most recent and have greatly enjoyed both.  Last week, Steve Bannon and David Frum debated the following statement:

Be it resolved, the future of western politics is populist not liberal.

The audience had the opportunity to vote at the beginning of the debate.  They were 28% in favor of the resolution and 72% against.

Steve Bannon argued in favor.  He frequently referenced President Trump during the debate, mostly getting groans when he did so, the worst being when he brought up NAFTA.  Trump is not popular in Canada.  Bannon argued that the foundation of Trump's populism was laid during the financial crisis of 2008.  When the elites of Washington demanded $1 trillion to bail out Wall Street, that was billed to the 'little people.'  The elites have done wonderfully for the last decade but the people of middle America have descended to such a point that Trump looked like the best option.  As such, Bannon described the divide as between elites and 'deplorables.'  Populism is the future and it will either take the form of Bernie Sanders' socialist populism or Trump's capitalist populism.  Either the leviathan of the administrative state would be dismantled or it would continue to grow and lead to American decline.

David Frum argued against.  A former member of the Bush Administration, Frum described populists as divisive by their nature, fueling hatred and excluding some people.  He argued that the exclusion was based on race.  Though he granted that many of the complaints that spurred the populist wave were valid, he held that it was more likely to wreck America than to restore it.  Frum spent most of his effort to vilify Trump rather than argue in favor of liberal politics.

 

Bannon heckled by the audience and got repeated negative reactions from the audience to his various claims.  However, he took this with good humor and offered a fair amount of commentary that provoked laughs.  He came across as a happy warrior.  By contrast, Frum received a lot of positive reactions from the crowd but seemed on the verge of tears.  His constant vilification of Trump made him seem very negative.  Too often, Frum's arguments were ad hominem.

 

At the debate's conclusion, the audience voted again.  57% were in favor and 43% against, a decisive victory for Bannon.  This was more a result of Frum's failure to defend the liberal politics rather than Bannon's powerful arguments.  Bannon made good points and Frum mostly said Trump bad.  Bannon offered arguments for populism and Frum offered no reasons for the status quo ante Trump.